http://www.rickmckinley.net/2007/10/18/my-thoughts-on-the-emerging-church/

Before you attribute something to someone you have to make sure they actually said it. Listening to someone else tell you what “they” said is not enough to form a complete enough picture to actually argue a point.

I know Rob Bell and have read some McLaren and I can tell you that they have never questioned the Divinity of Jesus in anything I have heard from either of them. In fact I would say they are both counting very much on the Divinity of Jesus in their personal faith journeys.

I know this is about being careful of what we believe and not necessarily attacking these men and I appreciate that (as a worthy trait for any Young Life leader.) But I would recommend reading some of their books or listening to something they have actually said and recorded (podcasts) before carrying this thread much further.

Welcome to the discussion. I must humbly confess that I have not read much of either of their books, although I have read quite a bit about the Emergent Church, and I visit Emergent Village & Tony Jones’ blog frequently. I was introduced to Jones’ blog when he attacked YL’s non-negotiables (in which he irresponsibly misquoted the document).

As far as I know a lot of what they believe, teach, and discuss (because after all the Emergent Church is all about having discussions) is in line with Christian doctrine. But, my problem is when essential aspects of the Christian faith are being questioned to the point that they “don’t really matter” - things like the virgin birth & Jesus divinity, as you mentioned.

Those two are absolutely essential, not to have a saving faith, but for that saving faith to be valid. If Jesus was not born of a virgin and was not God, then he could not have died to pay the price for our sins. In addition, he lied about being God, and/or scripture is inaccurate.

I’m not saying we should hit kids or other unchurched folks with every truth, because every truth is not necessary for faith in Christ & salvation. But, that doesn’t mean they aren’t true. It’s a problem when church leaders say they don’t matter.

As for the atonement as substitutionary or reconciliatory question, I believe we should do both, just like we should express God’s justice & mercy without excluding one or the other, because they are both absolutely true.

I guess I take issue with people just throwing out fundamental beliefs of the Church that are rooted in scripture, just because of how they believe the people they are trying to reach think. Instead, as any good teacher would do, we should attempt to find new ways to teach those truths.

Have either of you read McLaren or Jones or any of “them.” I don’t ask to be accusatory, I’m just wondering. I’ve read those two a little and I high doubt either of them would deny absolute truth or any of the absolutely true doctrines Chris laid out (the virgin birth, Jesus’ divinity, etc.)

Speaking of those doctrines, one of the issues that “they” try to deal with is what doctrines are absolute as far as Christian beliefs go. In other words, what do I have to believe to qualify as Christian? I think this issue (and question) is really important in the world of Young Life and out-reach youth ministries because we deal with kids who don’t get fed these doctrines in church.

For example, our club talks cover Jesus’ humanity, divinity, death on the cross and resurrection every semester without fail. But what about the virgin birth? Is that essential? Is creation essential? Is the Holy Spirit essential? Is it essential to talk of atonement as substitutionary (as Paul outlines) or should we focus on atonement as reconciliatory (as Jesus’ Prodigal Son parable does)?

Anyway, I absolutely believe in absolute truth, but I also think that these guys are contributing a lot to our faith with their thoughts. I’m looking forward to hearing your podcast on this stuff!

Here’s the thing. There are some things in the Christian faith that are scriptural absolutes, such as the virgin birth, Jesus’ divinity, Jesus’ humanity, Jesus’ death on the cross, & Jesus’ resurrection. It’s fine to talk about how we know they are absolute, but if we begin to talk about how they might not be true then we lose Jesus. All of those things have got to be true in order for Jesus to be the perfect sacrifice for our atonement.

More intelligent people than me might feel there’s a need for more proof than God has already provided. I just thank God that he didn’t make me that smart.